Home Page

Today's
Paper

Video

Most Popular

Times
Topics

Search All
NYTimes.com

Dining &
Wine

World

U.S.

N.Y. / Region

Business

Technology

Science

Health

Sports

Opinion

Arts

Style

Fashion &
Style

Dining &
Wine

Home &
Garden

Weddings/Celebrations

T
Magazine

Travel

Jobs

Real Estate

Autos

January 21, 2009, 1:11 pm

No-Knead Dough Again–This Time, For Pizza

By PETE
WELLS

Jim Lahey makes pizzas in the kitchen at Sullivan Bakery. (Photo:
Michael Nagle for The New York Times)

Jim Lahey, whose no-knead bread
was made famous in this article by Mark
Bittman, has adapted
it for pizza dough. Mr. Lahey’s pizzeria, Co.,
opened recently in Chelsea.

E-mail
This

Print

Share Close

Linkedin

Digg

Facebook

Mixx

My
Space

Permalink

Restaurants, pizza

Related Posts

From Diner's Journal

Daniel
Patterson Says New York Has Too Much Tuna Tartare, Bacon, Pizza and Fried
Chicken

McNallyland:
A Review of Pulino’s Bar & Pizzeria

A
Five-Ton Bid for Pizza Supremacy

When
the Moon Hits Your Eye

It’s
Pizza Oscar for Bianco, Says Rachael Ray

Previous post Recipe
of the Day: Squid in Red Wine Sauce

Next post A
Crispy Crust for Chicken

From 1 to 25 of 79 Comments

1 2
3
4
Next
»

1. January 21, 2009 1:48 pm Link

Probably the most overhyped pizza joint in New York City
history.
— Steven M.

2. January 21, 2009 2:22 pm Link

So make your own!
— Jen

3. January 21, 2009 3:09 pm Link

Compared to the no-knead bread recipe, the differences are only 1/4
teaspoon more salt and 1/8 cup less water. Are these differences actually that
substantial?
— Dave

4. January 21, 2009 3:28 pm Link

Hmmm…
No-knead?
No need!
— David

5. January 21, 2009 4:09 pm Link

Acutally Dave, the less water is a big deal when baking bread. Baking is
science where cooking is an art.
— Thanos

6. January 21, 2009 4:40 pm Link

I’ve made no-knead bread lots of times. My first response to this article
was “How are you ever going to get the pizza off the peel?” I guess a whole
lot of flour or corn meal on the peel would br the only chance.

Anybody tried this recipe?
— Bill M

7. January 21, 2009 5:02 pm Link

Cake and pastry baking are certainly fussy, but bread baking? I’d imagine
the different protein content in bread flour vs. northern all-purpose flour
vs. southern all-purpose flour would have a greater effect on how things turn
out than that 1/8 cup water. (The 1 & 1/2 cup water is only “exact” if
you’re using the same flour Jim Lahey does — we’re also ignoring the fact that
Mr. Lahey, as a professional baker, probably weighs his ingredients instead of
using volume measurements.)

That said, my guess is that he cut down on the amount of water to make the
dough more workable. A really sticky, sloppy dough is fine if you’re just
dumping it into a pot, but if you need to work it into a pizza crust, extra
stability is much appreciated. As Mr. Lahey said “Making the dough is easy, …
Handling it, tossing it—that’s the tricky part.”

(The extra salt is probably just there for flavor. The savoriness we expect
in a slice of bread is different than what we expect for a pizza
crust.)
— RM

8. January 21, 2009 5:17 pm Link

Forgive me but I’m really confused.

I read both articles linked here and find the entire concept exactly the
same as that explained in the book “Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day” which
I’ve been using to great success of late. The ideas are executed differently
(heated broiler pan with added hot water for the moisture vs. the pot) but the
concept the same.

So, which came first? It almost leads me to believe that one copied the
other, or maybe Mr. Lahey just didn’t write a book to go with his
discovery.

Thanks for the guidance!

Sr. Colon in Tejas
— Cristobal Colon

9. January 21, 2009 5:28 pm Link

I gotta say it, and I don’t want to hurt feelings. Frankly, I like Bitten,
his minimalist clips and this section in general.

However : the NYT “no knead,” bread recipe takes top honors for the single
most overhyped recipe of 2008. I played with it like many of you did, and it’s
foolproof alright : for making a flat, listless and flavorless ugly looking
loaf of bread. Who gives a whit about not kneading if the end result is
embarassing to serve.

In your book, Mark, you suggest a decent recipe with a food processor. That
works well enough and I’d recommend that over this recipe.
— Guy who
forgot his login ID

10. January 21, 2009 5:29 pm Link

Just my opinion, but seems like those who are prepared to skip the kneading
process are probably using frozen dough from the store already. :p
—
Melissa

11. January 21, 2009 5:39 pm Link

Seems alright. I like a richer dough for pizza personally. I don’t really
see the advantage of no knead though, unless you don’t own a mixer or food
processor. For bread dough, the long slow ferment adds flavor, but I’m no sure
that is such an issue on a pizza, as it is a subtle change.
—
Justin

12. January 21, 2009 5:44 pm Link

I hate recipe’s that give instructions such as “bake on top of a very hot
pizza stone”. Don’t be cute. Give us the temperature!
Lombardi’s bakes at
900 degrees. Is that your definition of “very hot”?
You’ve got a
thermometer. Use it.
— Richard

13. January 21, 2009 5:45 pm Link

This is a NY Time’s article ? Here’s an Oklahoma Oy Vey.
— Doug
Hill

14. January 21, 2009 6:43 pm Link

lots of difference between a good pizza crust and bread. dough. I bake a
lot of bread and tend to bake bread that tastes good and do not pay a lot of
attention to hydration etc. this will draw a lot of flames. But if yu want
salt rising bread, come see me.

— Tim

15. January 21, 2009 7:49 pm Link

Actually, I’ve been using the original formula for pizza for some time now!
Don’t know why it’d require less water – once it’s fermented, it’s also lost a
good deal of stickiness – and it’s quite easy to handle on the bench –
besides, the more water, the bigger the holes – Nice!
—
drfugawe

16. January 21, 2009 8:46 pm Link

Bill M – put a piece of parchment on your peel (no flour/semolina needed).
Form and top your pizza and slide the parchment onto the hot stone — 450-500
heated for 45 mins. prior. Easy, clean, beautiful, whether you use the
no-kneed recipe or not.
— kari

17. January 21, 2009 8:53 pm Link

Well #9, I’ve made the NKB several times, all for serious foodies who pull
no punches. I used the tweaked America’s Test Kitchen recipe however, and
settled on Stella Artois as my “special” ingredient. Served to good responses,
especially when presented with a slice of a tart apple and some Brie.
I
look forward to testing out this pizza dough recipe, especially based on #15’s
report.
— Munchausen

18. January 21, 2009 9:09 pm Link

I don’t understand all of the angry sounding comments. Lighten up folks
(Comment #4, 9, 10, 12, 13) .
Comment #9, I have had the exact opposite
experience with the no-knead recipe. Every single person who tries our bread
asks for the recipe. Two of our babysitters and two neighbors this week alone
have asked us about it.
The best traditional Neapolitan pizza uses dough
that has proofed for a long time to develop flavor, usually with a natural
starter (a la Una Pizza Napoletana). I always thought the original no-knead
recipe could be adapted for pizza. It’s got a nice nutty flavor, without being
overly “yeasty.”
Comment #12, most people can’t get temps over 600 degrees,
so the author is really saying, as hot as your oven will go. I let my stone
heat up for a good 45 minutes. Have you read the article from July about the
guy who rigged his home oven to get higher temps for pizza?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/dining/02pizza.html?partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
—
Chicago Mike

19. January 21, 2009 9:10 pm Link

i have to say i seconf number nine’s opinion completely, although my mother
taught me to be a little more diplomatic when disagreeing with others. no
knead bread has very little flavor and is completely unappealing to
eat.
— cybercita

20. January 21, 2009 9:49 pm Link

I really doubt that 1/4 tsp of yeast will make 4 12-inch pizza crusts of
any height. Mark, I hope you have hand-tested this recipe you endorse.

Can I also say, it was annoying to click through multiple links to the
recipe, from the RSS feed. That seems like it could be done more
efficiently.

Your cooking librarian/efficiency tech,

Celia.
— Celia

21. January 21, 2009 10:04 pm Link

Suggestions to tune this recipe for an elevation of 4500 feet? How much
less yeast?
— Tom

22. January 21, 2009 10:13 pm Link

Thanos, your smugness is misplaced. The point of Fahey’s no-knead recipes
is to avoid that level of fuss. As RM points out, there are plenty of margins
of error involved here, and the science consistently works. Home bakers,
especially those who have no need for consistency because they bake once or
twice a week, have no need for the level of precision you’re obsessed with.
Staying within the margins of error produces very satisfying results.

I echo the comments about the annoying trail of clicks needed to see the
actual article after following the RSS link. I understand the Times’ need for
clickthroughs and page refreshes to display ads, but this was
user-hostile.
— Bob S.

23. January 21, 2009 10:17 pm Link

Actually, Celia, 1/4 tsp of yeast is plenty. The small amount of yeast
means that the dough takes longer to rise. However, it still rises plenty
high.
— Kelsey

24. January 21, 2009 10:49 pm Link

Thanos
Cooking is chemistry, baking is magic.
— sintil8

25. January 22, 2009 12:37 am Link

Pointless hype – endless variations of this method have been used by
millions of bakers and cooks for centuries, if not millennia. Hardly a
discovery and definitely not rocket science.
— Norm

1 2
3
4
Next
»

Add your comments...

Your Name Required

Your E-mail Required, will not be published

Your Comment
Comments are
moderated and generally will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive. For
more information, please see our Comments
FAQ.

Search This Blog

Search

Previous post Recipe
of the Day: Squid in Red Wine Sauce

Next post A
Crispy Crust for Chicken

Inside Diner's Journal

Cooking

Drinking

Restaurants

September 24, 2010

Making
Savory Biscotti

Biscotti don’t need to be sweet. They can be made with any number of flavors,
including this one of cheese and cayenne.

September 23, 2010

Savory
Bread Pudding, in Lieu of Potatoes

Ed Schneider writes that savory bread pudding took the place of potatoes at
dinner in memory of a friend, who had his own Food Pyramid.

More From
Cooking »

September 24, 2010

In
Search of a Good Wine List

At Yuva Frontier Indian Grill, Eric Asimov discovers its online wine list.

September 22, 2010

Has
Anyone Tasted You Lately?

What’s the appropriate response when a publicist offers to “taste you on”
some whiskey?

More From
Drinking »

September 23, 2010

Walgreens
Gets Fresh

The drugstore chain has started selling fruit, vegetables and other fresh
foods in some Manhattan stores.

September 23, 2010

Andrew
Carmellini’s Restaurant to Be Called the Dutch

The name, he says, is “a little bit old school, a little bit O.G., a little
bit Damon Runyonesque.”

More From
Restaurants »

September 23, 2010

Walgreens
Gets Fresh

The drugstore chain has started selling fruit, vegetables and other fresh
foods in some Manhattan stores.

September 23, 2010

Andrew
Carmellini’s Restaurant to Be Called the Dutch

The name, he says, is “a little bit old school, a little bit O.G., a little
bit Damon Runyonesque.”

More From
Restaurants
»

Dear
FloFab

Have a dining dilemma? Ask FloFab.

Previous
Posts »

Hey, Mr.
Critic!

Need restaurant advice? E-mail Sam Sifton.

Previous
Posts
»

About Diner's Journal

We’ve combined all three New York Times dining blogs –
Bitten, The Pour and Diner’s
Journal – into one free-range superblog. Contributors include Eric
Asimov, Mark
Bittman, Glenn
Collins, Florence
Fabricant, Nick Fox, Julia
Moskin, Sam Sifton,
Kim
Severson, Samantha
Storey, Emily
Weinstein, Pete Wells
and others. Diner’s Journal embraces news and opinion about recipes, wine, restaurants
and other matters culinary.

E-mail us with tips and
suggestions. »

Follow us on Twitter »

Subscribe to our
feed »

Search Recipes

Browse Recipes

Course

Breads/Baked Goods

dessert

Drinks

Hors d’oeuvres/Appetizers

Main Course

salad

Side Dish

Soup

Cuisine

african

American

caribbean

Chinese

Eastern European/Russian

Eclectic

English

French

German/Austrian

Indian

Italian

Japanese

Latin American

Mediterranean

Mexican

Middle Eastern

Pan-Asian

Spanish

Main Ingredient

beef

fish

fruit

Lamb

pasta

pork

Poultry

Rice/Grain

Shellfish

tofu

Veal

Vegetable

Meals

Breakfast

brunch

Dinner

lunch

Snack

Other

Good for Groups

grilling

vegetarian

The Baker's
Apprentice

Time

30 Minutes and Under

60 Minutes and Under

Recent Posts

September 24

Making
Savory Biscotti

Biscotti don't need to be sweet. They can be made with any
number of flavors, including this one of cheese and cayenne.

September 24

Weekend
Fare

Food and drink events for the weekend of Sept. 24 to Sept.
26.

September 24

Vegetables
Bring In $100,000 at Sotheby’s

The vegetable auction was part of a charity evening called The
Art of Farming that brought in at least $250,000 for local farming
programs.

September 24

In
Search of a Good Wine List

At Yuva Frontier Indian Grill, Eric Asimov discovers its online
wine list.

September 23

Walgreens
Gets Fresh

The drugstore chain has started selling fruit, vegetables and
other fresh foods in some Manhattan stores.

Subscribe

Diner's Journal
RSS

Follow us on

Twitter

Diner's Journal

Loading
Twitter messages...

Follow Diner's
Journal on Twitter »

www.nytimes.com

Domains
- Joe Bastianich’s Italian Villa - NYTimes.com

The worst thing about his partner, Mario Batali? "His unrelenting
optimism. It is almost delusional." - Pete Wells

newyork.grubstreet.com

Jon
Bloostein Impulse-Buys $3,400 of Geese at Heirloom Vegetable Auction -- Grub
Street New York

The owner of Heartland Brewery came looking for pumpkins and
walked away with live poultry. - Pete Wells

blogs.villagevoice.com

Our
10 Best Chinese Restaurants, 2010 Edition - New York Restaurants and Dining -
Fork in the Road

blogs.wsj.com

Sotheby’s
Enters New York’s Retail Wine Scene - On Wine - WSJ

ny.eater.com

Finally,
'Artisanal' Brooklyn Fare Minus the Stinky Subway Ride : Bridging the Gap :
Eater NY

Brooksploitation? A restaurant on W. Houston St. will celebrate
Brooklyn's "food and drink artisans." - Pete Wells

See
more of what we're reading » | Feed

Blogroll

Adventures in Eating

A Hamburger Today

Amateur Gourmet

An Obsession With Food (and
Wine)

Anthony
Bourdain: No Reservations

Bento.com

Big City Country
Boy

Cake Spy

Cannelle et
Vanille

Cheap Ass Food

Chocolate and Zucchini

Chow

Dorie Greenspan

Eating China

Eating in
Translation

Gerry Dawes's
Spain

Gonzo Gastronomy

Hunter Angler Gardener Cook

Joey in Astoria

Making Sunday Sauce

Midtown Lunch

Serious Eats

Shut Up Foodies

Slashfood

Slice

Tartelette

The Gurgling
Cod

Chef and Critic Blogs

Alan
Richman

Anthony
Bourdain: No Reservations

Chef Mateo Blog

Cook's Tour by Alison
Cook

Eric Ripert: Avec Eric

Francois Simon: Simon
Says

Gael Greene: Insatiable
Critic

Jean-Georges Vongerichten's
blog

Cooking

101 Cookbooks

Alinea at Home

Amateur Gourmet

Baking Bites

Cake Spy

Cannelle et
Vanille

Chocolate and Zucchini

Culinate

Cured Meats

Dorie Greenspan

Eating China

Epicurious

Epicurious: The
Epi-Log

Food52

Fork and Bottle

Homesick Texan

Hunter Angler Gardener Cook

Ideas in Food

Just Hungry

Making Sunday Sauce

Mark Bittman

Melissa Clark

Michael Ruhlman

Not Eating Out in New York

Pinoy Cook/Home Cooking Rocks!

Serious Eats

Slashfood

Tartelette

The Food
Section

The Internet Food
Association

The Kitchn

The Wednesday
Chef

Food politics

Civil Eats

Edible Geography

Food Politics by Marion
Nestle

Obama Foodorama

Politics of the
Plate

Forum

Chowhound

Coffee Forums

eGullet

Serious Eats

Print, Broadcast and Web Media Sites

Bloomberg:
Dining

Bon Appetit

Bon
Appetit Blogs

CBC News: Food
Bytes

Chicago
Tribune: Dining

Daily Telegraph: Food
and Drink

Dishing

Eat Me Daily

Eatocracy

Epicurious: The
Epi-Log

Food & Wine

Food & Wine:
Mouthing Off

Food News Journal

GQ: Forked &
Corked

Guardian
Food

New York
Daily News: Food

NPR
Topics: Food

Salon: Food

Saveur

The Atlantic: Food

The Houston Press:
Eating...Our Words

The Los Angeles Times:
Food

The New York
Times: Dining

The San Francisco Chronicle:
Food

The
Stew

The Wall
Street Journal

The
Washington Post

Restaurants

Bloomberg:
Dining

Eater National

Eater New York

Feast

Gayot New York
Restaurant News

Gothamist Food

Grub Street

Inside Scoop SF

Midtown Lunch

The
Feed: Time Out New York

The Food
Section

The Internet Food
Association

Village Voice: Fork
in the Road

Waiter Rant

Well Done Fillet

Zagat Buzz

Wine and Other Drinks

Alice Feiring's Veritas in
Vino

Ampelography

An Obsession With Food (and
Wine)

Appellation Beer

Ardent Spirits

Beer Advocate

Bigger Than Your
Head

Brooklyn Guy's Wine
and Food Blog

CataVino

Coffee Forums

CoffeeGeek

Decanter.com

Dr. Vino

DrinkBoy

Drinkster

Fermentation

Fine Wine Diary

Fork and Bottle

Gang of Pour

Gerry Dawes's
Spain

Gonzo Gastronomy

Good Grape

Grape Radio

Jancis Robinson

Jeremy Parzen's blog

Jim's Loire

Lyke to Drink -- Rick
Lyke

Malt Advocate

Matching Food and
Wine

McDuff's Food & Wine
Trail

Nat Decants

New York Cork
Report

Oenologic

Off the Presses -- Robert
Simonson

Old World Old
School

Oliver Strand's coffee
blog

On the Wine Trail in Italy

One Thousand Bars and
Beyond

Prince of Pinot

Random Raving Ramblings on Wine,
Food and Life

RateBeer

Reflections on Wine

Ristretto

Robert Parker Online

Rockss and Fruit

Samantha Sans Dosage

Steve Heimoff

The Gray Market Report

Vinography

Wine Cellar
Insider

Wine Doctor

Wine Terroirs

WineChap

Zester Daily

Archive
Select
Month September 2010
August
2010 July 2010
June
2010 May 2010
April
2010 March 2010
February
2010 January 2010
December
2009 November 2009
October
2009 September 2009
August
2009 July 2009
June
2009 May 2009
April
2009 March 2009
February
2009 January 2009
December
2008 November 2008
October
2008 September 2008
August
2008 July 2008
June
2008 May 2008
April
2008 March 2008
February
2008 January 2008
December
2007 November 2007
October
2007 September 2007
August
2007 July 2007
June
2007 May 2007
April
2007 March 2007
February
2007 January 2007
December
2006 November 2006
October
2006 September 2006
August
2006 July 2006
June
2006 May 2006
April
2006 March 2006
February
2006

Home

World

U.S.

N.Y. /
Region

Business

Technology

Science

Health

Sports

Opinion

Arts

Style

Travel

Jobs

Real
Estate

Autos

Back
to Top

Copyright
2010 The New York Times Company

Privacy

Terms of
Service

Search

Corrections

RSS

First Look

Help

Contact
Us

Work for Us

Advertise

Site Map